tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post1824020283144756084..comments2023-10-28T17:24:41.752+05:00Comments on Cafe Pyala: Cutting Through the EmotionalismXYZhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17120968316026139059noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-69785776015691133212011-02-23T18:58:59.206+05:002011-02-23T18:58:59.206+05:00You conveniently forget that during initial invest...You conveniently forget that during initial investigation (whose video has now been widely distributed), Davis denies that he is affiliated with the US embassy, rather he corrected his interrogator that he worked as a consultant at the US Lahore "consulate".<br /><br />Moreover, your position in the host country is not determined by your passport, but the visa designation conferred to you by the host nation --at the time. At the time of his arrest, Davis was NOT on any diplomatic list held by the Pakistani foreign office, nor did he hold any diplomatic status on his visa. Even the US claimed that he was attached as technical staff to it's Lahore consulate and had even requested the Pakistani foreign office to assign him to Lahore.<br /><br />You sweep aside all the facts, throw in irrelevant minutia about Vienna Convention, as if that will impress anyone at this stage, and are so desperately clinging to fantasies and trying to build a case for Davis on wild hypothetical scenarios.<br /><br />As a liberal blog, one would expect you to keep in mind, first and foremost, those bereaved Pakistani families who are the victims of this Blackwater (Xe) mercenary. You did not even feel necessary to acknowledge their loss. What if Davis had killed Bilawal and Bakhtawar ?, or some equally useless liberal glitterati ?.<br /><br />I think it's only because these families belong to a class which is just "too Pakistani" for your privileged tastes.Sheikh Chillishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04233823578058900024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-79722378340280217012011-02-23T18:49:39.290+05:002011-02-23T18:49:39.290+05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Sheikh Chillishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04233823578058900024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-6860608196152477982011-02-22T01:22:22.291+05:002011-02-22T01:22:22.291+05:00@Ayeshaht
Sorry, let me say it a little differen...@Ayeshaht <br /><br />Sorry, let me say it a little differently. While technically what you state is correct, what I am trying to convey to you is that just because he was working out of Lahore (a consulate), diplomatic immunity is not precluded. He may (most certainly was) posted to Islamabad and worked out of the Lahore office (I reread my OG post and left that operative statement out). If that is the case, he's got Diplomatic Immunity (PAT staff or otherwise) and Pakistan is in violation of the Geneva Convention. <br /><br />If he was posted to Lahore, then yes, he's covered by Consular Immunity.The Shamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-30581855187331787832011-02-03T19:30:30.036+05:002011-02-03T19:30:30.036+05:00Looks like Najam Sethi is still clinging to the ho...Looks like Najam Sethi is still clinging to the hope that the Yanks will still fund him his own channel.<br />After all what will Pakistani liberals be if not having liberal doses of HypocrisyJawad falaknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-68351348627481986892011-02-02T15:53:10.588+05:002011-02-02T15:53:10.588+05:00Interestingly, I posted a similar such analysis as...Interestingly, I posted a similar such analysis as a comment on Tribune's website. My comment awaited moderation, but never got posted :D however, a few 'Exchange Aafia for Davies' posts did manage to pass the moderation after my post :DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-31596886177274689272011-02-02T04:24:13.605+05:002011-02-02T04:24:13.605+05:00@The Sham
That's a misconception.
The two ...@The Sham <br /><br />That's a misconception. <br /><br />The two treaties 'Diplomatic Convention' & 'Consular Convention' govern diplomatic mission and Consulates respectively. So the US Consulates throughout Pakistan and anywhere in the world are governed by the 'Consular Convention', while the 'Diplomatic Convention' applies to the diplomatic mission alone.Ayeshahttp://ayesha5.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-70552602225150670332011-02-02T02:47:16.417+05:002011-02-02T02:47:16.417+05:00The difference is obvious. Sethi didnt enter into ...The difference is obvious. Sethi didnt enter into journalism like rest of the MA Urdu pass Jamaatiyas who joined the Zia's propaganda machinery.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-8108237806349461202011-02-02T01:29:17.286+05:002011-02-02T01:29:17.286+05:00so the moment geo starts towing your 'liberal&...so the moment geo starts towing your 'liberal' line it becomes refreshing <br /><br />shame on youAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-78217174482247722682011-02-01T23:50:42.777+05:002011-02-01T23:50:42.777+05:00Dear XYZ,
ok yes I did mixed up the fact,...Dear XYZ,<br /> ok yes I did mixed up the fact, a little, and it was a party by the Ashley Bommer where Ibrahim Rehman walked in with Najam Sethi. Kindly refer to Cafe Pyala post of 26th November, Titled Money Talks, where you have clearly accused the Geo Tv of being on "some sort" of American Payroll" and accused them of being "subsdized" by the American Money and "potential threat of withdrawal of lucrative financial support may be the trigger for a panic at the Jang Group".<br />dear XYZ my PRECONCEPTION was shaped by YOU and your writing. You went on length to describe how GEO was beholden to American Money and I feel a little cheated that you change your views so quickly.<br />By the way and to be honest I have really felt very liberated and while I discussed and promoted you the idea I learned from your post, but the buck stops here, you have stopped being brave.Dost Mohammadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-53445871036159014682011-02-01T22:08:49.600+05:002011-02-01T22:08:49.600+05:00Yep great facts. So how many times has America its...Yep great facts. So how many times has America itself broken the Geneva convention and sentenced foreign diplomats to life in prison for traffic accidents? You want to check that out?<br /><br />And this guy was a CIA worker whose real name we dont even know.... Sheeesh looks like u guys have some lucrative contracts lined up with USAID.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-28162373865563569842011-02-01T22:03:31.603+05:002011-02-01T22:03:31.603+05:00Hear, hear. Very nice juxtaposition by pyala. Whil...Hear, hear. Very nice juxtaposition by pyala. While the first programme showed how crude the ISI cohorts are (Dr Mazari didn't duck the issue, she used the terms 'waive' the immunity which in this case yanks are not prepared to), the US and its 'liberal' Pakistani allies are becoming very sophisticated. The American point of view was very well argued. Najam Sethi should also have said how could a Fed Govt that does not have the balls to stand up to the Mullahs, defy the US. The next round of wikileaks will demonstrate that this episode was part of Pakistan's foolish military-intelligence establishement to extract a concession from the Yanks about how many Indians do/don't sabotage GHQ's 'strategic depth' in Afghanistan.<br />I won't say more for the fear of cutting short the orgasm of Pakistan's liberal silent majority!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-7058961456342234852011-02-01T20:22:07.745+05:002011-02-01T20:22:07.745+05:00Your approach to this incident is both refreshing ...Your approach to this incident is both refreshing and laudable. Thank you for sticking to the known facts and dispensing with the hyperbolic pseudo-patriotic bile I've read surrounding the event. Your page = favorited.<br /><br />@Ayesha: Actually, to clarify, the two separate conventions apply to different levels of diplomatic relations. In other words, The US has an Embassy AND Consular offices in Pakistan. Therefore, the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations applies, regardless of whether he worked in a consular office or the main embassy. To belabor the point, just because he worked at the consular office doesn't mean the VCDR is thrown out. The Vienna Convention on Consular Relations would apply if the only relations the nations have are through a consulate office, meaning full diplomatic relations have not been established. That's my take at any rate. I may certainly be reading this erroneously.The Shamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-31522485225847870462011-02-01T18:54:53.861+05:002011-02-01T18:54:53.861+05:00@Ayesha: I see what you're saying, i.e. making...<b>@Ayesha:</b> I see what you're saying, i.e. making a distinction between an Embassy vs a Consulate employee. Yes, I was referring only to Embassy employees. Interestingly, that may be the main reason that the US changed its statement regarding Davis. It now claims him as an employee of the Embassy as opposed to the Lahore Consulate.<br /><br /><b>@Al:</b> You wrote: "For example the point relating to Foreign Office and control of the Federal Government. Pseudo Analysts will pick up this point that the govt is an Amreeki Pithoo and hence it got Davis out."<br />Yes, the government is screwed either way.<br /><br /><b>@Dost Mohammad:</b> First of all, you have some of your facts mixed up. Yes, we did report on Geo and Najam Sethi meeting with the Americans, but it was not at the Pentagon. And neither did we ever say the Americans wanted Geo and Sethi to team up or engineered it.<br /><br />Secondly, you have obviously decided in your mind what 'facts' you will accept and anything that goes against your preconceptions, you will simply ignore. I do wish, however, that you had focused your upset at Sethi's analysis by providing us alternative evidence or interpretation rather than simply attacking him and Geo (and us) for being beholden to American money. And no, we will not stop from calling a spade a spade, whether it seems politically correct or not. As I said, we're not fans of emotionalism.XYZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17120968316026139059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-26352066585407171972011-02-01T13:47:48.536+05:002011-02-01T13:47:48.536+05:00Was it not cafe Pyala which broke the news about S...Was it not cafe Pyala which broke the news about Sethi and owners of Geo meeting at Pentagon or some where and told us that as Americans are pumping millions of $ to coffer of Geo and Americans want the Geo to take a softer line for them and build there image in Pakistan? And so they want Sethi & owners of Geo/Jang come together? <br />Well I think the millions of $ made available to Geo is being put to good use now to save Raymond Davis, or may be its a test of them that how would they sway the minds in Pakistan now, and seems they have swinged at least people behind Cafe Pyala, as they were first ranting against Geo but now find it suddenly very refreshing.<br />I for a matter of fact believe that particular "American" shall be freed asap but comon Pyala People you shall not stop from calling a spade a spade.Dost Mohammadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-6667455920963800232011-02-01T11:07:57.045+05:002011-02-01T11:07:57.045+05:00Kamran Shahid's show was lame compared to Bolt...Kamran Shahid's show was lame compared to Bolta Pakistan. At the very least, he had two guests who were trying to stick to facts and Ms. Mazari resorting to jingoism. Fast forward 15 minutes into the Bolta Pakistan show and the fun starts.<br />http://www.pkaffairs.com/Play_Show_Bolta_Pakistan_31st_January_2011_12880Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-64275086745291732642011-02-01T10:07:55.492+05:002011-02-01T10:07:55.492+05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Tayyab Mahmoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09375000876457712481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-77894032727972890892011-02-01T09:17:05.984+05:002011-02-01T09:17:05.984+05:00It was a better program than the usual Geo rants t...It was a better program than the usual Geo rants that we hear all the time, but the direction of the program was a little confusing. For example the point relating to Foreign Office and control of the Federal Government. Pseudo Analysts will pick up this point that the govt is an Amreeki Pithoo and hence it got Davis out. <br /><br />Another aspect was to increase the fear level among the people. Are we not living with all sort of extremists amongst us? The American Agents, if there are and there must be, how different are they from the extremists trying to overshadow our daily lives.<br /><br />Muneeb Farooq seemed a little like Shahid Masood, maybe trying to copy his style.AIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14589500126938856435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-65614420745905030622011-02-01T07:07:54.130+05:002011-02-01T07:07:54.130+05:00@XYZ: I think you are confusing two treaties. One ...@XYZ: I think you are confusing two treaties. One is Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations the other is Vienna Convention on Consular Relations and the latter one doesn't give immunity to any of the officials in case of a 'grave crime' or 'serious crime'.<br /><br />That is IF Davis is a consular level employee as it was intially reported. US, however, claims he's a diplomat.Ayeshahttp://ayesha5.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-39440588695880556762011-02-01T05:45:01.891+05:002011-02-01T05:45:01.891+05:00@ayesha5: You wrote: "if Davis is a consular ...<b>@ayesha5:</b> You wrote: "if Davis is a consular level technical employee than he won't have immunity."<br /><br />Actually, if you read the Vienna Convention, even technical employees of a foreign mission have blanket immunity (as long as they are not host country citizens) as do administrative employees and all their families. I think I pointed this out in the post too.XYZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17120968316026139059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-83932536016215072752011-02-01T05:30:24.855+05:002011-02-01T05:30:24.855+05:00Forgot to mention, I noticed the changing eyewitne...Forgot to mention, I noticed the changing eyewitness' account as well as other evidence. <br /><br />Maybe the media is up to something or perhaps someone else is trying to dictate the terms.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110720279777344316.post-46493653224564239932011-02-01T05:28:12.025+05:002011-02-01T05:28:12.025+05:00I came up with the same analysis in my blog. Howev...I came up with the same analysis in my blog. However, if Davis is a consular level technical employee than he won't have immunity. But since, the US declared Davis to be a diplomat so in that case he will have blanket immunity. <br /><br />Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations is reciprocal and Pakistan will have to respect it otherwise, as you said our diplomats in the US will suffer too. <br /><br />Diplomatic immunity is kind of double edged sword. Over the years, several diplomats have been involved in serious crimes in the US and Congress' attempt to make changes to reciprocal immunity didn't yield any result. <br /><br />It is one aspect of diplomacy with which every country has to live.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com