Wednesday, February 2, 2011

A Brief History of Diplomatic Immunity (Updated)

Since we Pakistanis often suffer simultaneously from the twin demons of megalomania and paranoia - verily we are better than everyone else and that is why everyone is out to get us - we often also look at history through a rather selective and distorted lens. Unfortunately, none typify this mindset more than the doyens and doyennes of the Pakistani electronic media, in whom a curious mix of hyper-patriotism, half-baked information, sincere ignorance and arrogant bluster seems generally to hold sway.

Take the issue of the day on Pakistani media: whether the American known by his apparent pseudonym "Raymond Davis" - who shot dead two men in Lahore - can be tried by Pakistani courts or whether the US government has any right to claim diplomatic immunity for him. I am not going to offer my own opinion on this because, for better or worse, this is an issue for the US and Pakistani states to sort out. (I should, however, point out that, personally speaking, I do not think armed Americans or armed anyone should be roaming around the streets of Pakistan.)

But having seen numerous commentaries on television where emotive claims have been made about how Americans have not respected diplomatic immunity in their own cases, how immunity does not extend to serious crimes or how Pakistani diplomats have never been extended this kind of privilege, I just want to direct readers to a few examples.

Here's The Independent reporting in 1997 about a case in which a drunk Georgian diplomat killed a 16-year-old girl in New York with his reckless driving and the US requested a waiver from immunity for him. (The paper reports that Georgia was unlikely to approve the request though it actually was approved at the discretion of the Georgian government and the diplomat was sentenced for 7-21 years. He was transferred back to Georgia after serving three years [link courtesy @qabacha].) The piece also cites other incidences of less egregious crimes by diplomats that go unpunished. Appropriately for us, the story is titled "Can A Diplomat Get Away With Murder?"

You may also recall the shooting dead of British constable Yvonne Fletcher apparently by Libyan embassy staff in London in 1984 as well as the wounding of 11 others. Diplomatic immunity allowed the staff not to be prosecuted at all, though Britain subsequently broke off diplomatic relations with Libya. Fifteen years later, Libya accepted "general responsibility" and paid compensation, though some experts continued to question whether the police officer's death was actually caused by someone shooting from within the embassy.

Coming to Pakistani diplomats invoking diplomatic immunity, let us recall the case of our Ambassador to Spain, Mr. Haroon-ur-Rashid Abbasi, who Pakistan withdrew from his post in 1975 without allowing prosecution when heroin was discovered in his suitcase.

Let us also recall the case of our longtime permanent rep at the UN, Ambassador Munir Akram in 2003 who was accused of assault by his then girlfriend. The US also asked Pakistan to waive immunity in that case, which Pakistan did not oblige. (The case was eventually settled when Mr Akram persuaded his girlfriend to withdraw the charges against him).

So, as they say, au contraire, my friends.

Some final points, and please remember that we are only taking issue with the 'facts' of the case as presented in the media. Television analysts have almost unanimously claimed that "Davis" did not have a 'diplomatic visa'. It might behoove someone to ask our media pundits if they have ever actually seen a Pakistani diplomatic visa. From our own investigations, it seems Pakistani visas have no such specified category of 'Diplomatic Visa' (unlike some other countries). In fact, according our sources, all foreign diplomats receive Pakistani visas with the marking "Purpose of Visit:" "Official" or "Official Business" (not Official / Business, another category that does not exist) on their diplomatic passports. If they carry such a visa on their diplomatic passport and the Foreign Office has been so notified, they receive diplomatic immunity during their stay in Pakistan.

Here are some scans of Davis' passport as presented on DawnNews' Reporter programme...

This is the marking on his passport, which clearly states that he is on "diplomatic assignment" (click picture to enlarge):




This is his current visa, issued incidentally not in Washington (as claimed by Shireen Mazari on Geo and Syed Talat Hussain on DawnNews) but in Islamabad:



In fact, "Davis" only once received a three-month visa in 2009 from Washington. His subsequent 4-month visa in 2010 and his current 2-year visa were both issued within Pakistan.

Kamran Khan on Geo also went to great lengths to 'break the news' that "Davis" is a spy who works for the CIA. He almost certainly is. But not only is that not amazing insight, we have to ask, so? Is his actual work the issue of contention here? As former ambassador Zafar Hilaly pointed out on Dunya, spooks get posted on "cover postings" abroad all the time, including by the Pakistan Foreign Office, and they all receive diplomatic immunity under the Vienna Convention. Let's at least be clear what we are arguing about.


: : : UPDATES : : :

There have been some comments questioning some of my assertions in this post, which have been answered in the comments section. You may want to have a look.

A couple of other cases have been brought to our notice which we are also sharing. The first is the case in January 2001 of a Russian diplomat who killed a woman in Canada while driving drunk. A couple of quotes from this piece are worth pointing out.


"Andrey Knyazev was charged with criminal negligence causing death, impaired driving, failing to provide a breath sample, and criminal negligence causing bodily harm. Knyazev immediately claimed diplomatic immunity and on Monday, Russia denied Canada's request to lift it. [Russian Ambassador Vitaly] Churkin urged Canadians not to judge all Russians on the actions of one man. But he defended his government's right to recall Knyazev, saying it's tradition and common practice in the diplomatic community. “Many people are not happy that we didn't lift the diplomatic immunity," Churkin said. "The Canadian government has expressed its displeasure but recognized that this is our right.""


And this bit of wisdom from Canada's Foreign Minister that Pakistanis may also want to understand:


"[The] tragedy has raised questions about the use of diplomatic immunity to escape prosecution. But Foreign Affairs Minister John Manley says he will not use this case to press for changes. "There's an old saying among lawyers that hard cases make bad law," Manley said following a cabinet meeting Tuesday. "I think that (revising diplomatic rules) is something that we'd want to look at in a broader circumstance, not in the situation which we're in now," he said."



Incidentally, Shahid Saeed has also pointed out two further cases where Pakistani diplomats have invoked diplomatic immunity. The first involved Col Mohammad Hamid, a military attache in Pakistan's High Commission in London, who was caught in 2000 having sex with a prostitute in his car in a public place. When caught, Hamid immediately invoked diplomatic immunity and therefore could not be arrested. Here's an Indian Express report of the incident, which was also reported in the English papers.

The second involved the arrest in April 2001 in Kathmandu of Pakistan's first secretary Mohammad Arshad Cheema. 16kg of high-intensity explosive RDX were recovered from his residence. The Indian government believed him to be also linked to the hijacking of the Indian Airlines flight IC-814 which resulted in the freeing from Indian prisions of (subsequently Daniel Pearl murder accused) Omar Saeed Sheikh and Jaish-e-Mohammad leader 'Maulana' Masood Azhar. This report from the respected Indian magazine Frontline presents a wider and less one-sided perspective on the arrest. It also provides evidence of two things we already asserted in our post: that spies (and even military operatives) are often posted by foreign governments under diplomatic cover and that diplomatic immunity extends even to grave crimes. Cheema was expelled from Nepal rather than be prosecuted even though, by any definition, possessing high intensity explosives for ulterior motives is a very serious charge in any country.


48 comments:

Ayesha said...

The media is once again busy distorting facts and making the masses believe that this fellow was up to some nasty business.

I'm quite amazed at the stance of Pakistan's foreign office, they are truly handling the issue diplomatically. I'm assuming once the media fervor dies down, Davis will be released.

Anonymous said...

CIA and ISI have carried out numerous joint operations in cities to capture Alqaeda terrorists. CIA has also provided advanced intelligence equipment to trace phone calls etc.

I dont know why these media men are so surprised at this! Especially those mouthpiece of establishment - Shireen Mazari, Kamran Khan and Talat Hussain.

TLW said...

Since we Pakistanis often suffer simultaneously from the twin demons of megalomania and paranoia

I LOL'ed. And then I fell in love with XYZ. Please say you're a woman?

AI said...

The angle all the time had to bring in spies/CIA/Blackwater and the threats to our nuclear arsenal!

What a joke this whole facade is. The simple thing is: no one wants to make a decision right now for fear of ridicule and persecution.

ridicule and persecution both by media and the mindless judges who love playing the line of the media. Imagine: if Foreign Office does the work of deciding on immunity, they will be screwed by the US or by the judges. If PML-N led Punjab let him go, the media will ridicule them and the judges will make a slight issue. If Zardari said something and allowed Davis to go, then all hell will break loose.

Another interesting point I may like to make, confirming what Mr. Hilaly said. Pakistani embassies and consulates the world over have ISI spooks both in the garb of diplomatic and non-diplomatic staff. Our intelligence is so high that if the Embassy is providing vehicles up till the 1st secretary, and the ISI guy happens to be a Trade Counsellor, much lower than other officials, he would be getting an official car, thereby blowing off their own cover. Imagine our intelligence level

rahl said...

I would like to make a correction. I fill immigration forms here in the US and Pakistani passport/visa forms as well. I do this on a daily basis and I can state with full responsibility that the Pakistani visa have a diplomatic category.
Please refer to the following link to verify this:
www.pakistanconsulateny.org/PDF/visa-form.pdf

this form is filled and sent to the pakistani consulate.

Rehan said...

You have simply mixed the correct and wrong information just to make your point!

Pakistani visa has a Diplomatic category available. So dont just shout insane with such a blanket statement.

Nobody either be embassadors/diplomats or anyother even our/any president has no rights to kill any Pakistani and then claims the immunity.

I can't imagine there are guys supporting this immunity shit instead of raising their voices for the justice for three poor guys and their family.

Insane this is!!!!

Anonymous said...

Why should we ignore the fact the the Georgian diplomat, accused of killing in the USA; was convicted & then jailed for three years in the USA... just compare this with the present situation where USA government wants this cold blooded killer of three Pakistanin citizens to go scot free WITHOUT giving a right to the Pakistan government & courts to even investigate the case.. the fact that the killer is still in Lahore is not because of USA's will but because some & I add few government functionaries are willing to bring him to justice & ignore the US government pressure in support of this murderer.

Anonymous said...

I think better research was required before writing this post. Pakistan visa forms issued by consulate here in NYC do have 'diplomatic' category: http://www.pakistanconsulateny.org/PDF/visa-form.pdf

Anonymous said...

I am bit confused now, can anyone waive it off generally? and the second thing what is limited immunity?

http://tinyurl.com/35gxvzf
http://tinyurl.com/64gvq8d
http://tinyurl.com/5ufdute
http://tinyurl.com/5vemvxy
http://tinyurl.com/dd28nh

Anonymous said...

If I was robbed by two armed guys on a motorbike and happened to have a gun on me, I'd shoot them too. And not just in self-defence but if necessary, in the back after the deed was done. What else should one do? Wait for the police to do their job and nab them?!!! If this guy happened to have been a Pakistani, everyone would have been patting him on the back. But as usual, just because he's an American, everyone here is going blue in the face screaming for him to be hanged, drawn and quartered.
This has nothing to do with him being a spy and we can't conflate the two things.

AHK said...

In your attempt to show our medias bias your blog appear to be bending over backwards & appears secretly hoping that this individual gets away with murder.

Taliban said...

even after objections from many readers regarding VISA category and the link to VISA FORM itself...
you guys have not updated your post :)

Preaching Liberalism or secularism but being rigid about your point of view is what we call extremism...
I wonder why you roshan khayal's loath taliban then :P

or even why you guys point other anchors reporting error

you are doing the same kid.... :P

Rahl said...

my friend the media gurus you try to pin everyday feel the very same thing you are feeling right now, guilt and embarrassment at that error. While obviously you see it pretty directly, your media counterparts are shielded by many things.
We are waiting for ur reply xD

Tayyab Mahmood said...

Payala rendezvous gone bad .... every one uttering selective truth. You too Mr. Payala... let the investigation complete.

XYZ said...

I will update the post with some more instances but first want to respond to some of the comments.

@rahl and @Anon101: I can tell you with full authority that there is a difference in a form (which you refer to) and the actual notation on the visa issued. Even if a diplomatic visa is applied for, the visa itself will list 'Official Business' or 'Official' as the purpose of the visit on a diplomatic passport. My point in the post related to the claims by the media that because "Davis'" visa said 'Official Business', that it was somehow different from a true diplomatic visa. You may check this up from any Pakistani embassy or the Government of Pakistan, as we have.

@Rehan, @AHK and @Taliban: A little knowledge, foolhardy assertions and idiotic impulses to impute motives are all dangerous things. Please read my response to @rahl and @Anon101 and learn to step out of your preconceived ideas.

@Anon1208: Nobody is asking anyone to ignore the case of the Georgian diplomat. The point that we make is that, under the Vienna Convention, a diplomat's sending country is the only authority to decide on a waiver of immunity. In the case of the Georgian diplomat, the reason he could be tried in the US was because the Georgian government agreed to waive immunity after the US expressly asked it to. Without this agreement, the US could have done nothing. When you say "the USA government wants this cold blooded killer of three Pakistanin citizens to go scot free WITHOUT giving a right to the Pakistan government & courts to even investigate the case" you are mistaken on two counts. The first is that "Davis" is charged with two, not three murders. The second is, under the Vienna Convention, if "Davis" is indeed deemed to be on diplomatic assignment, Pakistan has no "right" to try him without expressly asking the US for and receiving a waiver. The US would be within its rights to refuse the waiver. We may not like it but tough luck, that's a Convention we have ratified and by which we operate.

@Tayyab Mahmood: You might want to tell us how our truth is selective. All we have done is point out the fallacies of certain information presented as fact. (Hope you don't end up citing the Geneva Convention at length again when what is being discussed is the Vienna Conventions.)

Tayyab Mahmood said...

haha... yup that's why removed it instantly & never posted anything on any blog regarding this matter. I accept my mistake... what i am saying is only GOP can tell us about the immunity. Some section of media presenting USA Embassy letter asking for non-diplomatic card for arrested person. So let the matter settle by competent authority. No where in the world people draw conclusion beforehand as investigation / modalities are still pending.
Remember Fatwa bonanza :)

Imdad said...

One thing that is being left out is the case of the third death of the guy crushed under another support vehicle. The US embassy is saying it knows nothing of any such car. So if Davis is to be set free under the Conventions, how is the police to investigate where that rescue vehicle came from and who was driving it. Was that person also under any immunity or not. While the shooting by Davis might be in self defense, the crushing death of the third guy was totally a different matter which needs investigation.

Anonymous said...

This is a first. Pyala has started censoring comments. Yesterday I posted a comment re Shireen Mazari and the orgasmic reaction to Najam Sethi's porgrammes. I also pointed out that US 'dilpomat's' immunity is being questioned at the behest of the ISI. That has disappeared mysteriously. Let's see if this one lasts.

Anonymous said...

Apologies. I withdraw my critical comment above which begins with: This is a first. Becuase my comment is very much part of the post titled Cutting Through Emotionalism. Sorry, I shot from the hip without checking.

BlackZero said...

Sethi's programme was definitely devoid of any Kamran Khanesque emotionalism and Dr Shahid Masoodesque theatrics, but some -- but not all -- of his facts were, er, assertions or half-truths. The investigations are on-going and more facts will, hopefully, emerge. At this juncture, we can only celebrate that Geo now features a saner, anti-retrogressive counter narrative. But, dear CP walas, please do not get swayed by all of what Sethi is saying. Let me give a specific example: Sethi forcefully spoke about the shooting-in-the-back bit in his show. If yesterday's news about the post-mortem report is to believed, his claim is incorrect. Of course, the earlier sensational claim that both fellas were shot in the back is incorrect too.

Also Sethi opted not to talk about the conflicting versions given by the US consulate and embassy about the status of "Davis". The Americans did bungle up on this and issued press statements that don't add up. Sethi also opted not to talk about the tragic death of the third person, who is presumed to be a bystander and apparently had nothing to do with the alleged robbery. Sethi Sahib can pick and choose facts to build his arguments. People do it all the time. But I believe that he went overboard -- without foaming at the mouth -- in his first programme. In some ways, he is as enthusiastic about his version as -- bear with me for the comparison -- Kamran Khan and Dr Shahid Masood.

Don't get me wrong. I understand that "Davis" enjoys immunity, and will be, sooner or later, handed over to the US. As far as I understand, the GoP can -- and should -- demand the US government to try "Davis" for the murder, albeit in self-defence, of two Pakistani citizens. Of course, it is up to the US government to decide the fate of "Davis".

PS: Sethi reads your blog. He likes you. He even quoted you today (Wednesday).

rishigajria said...

Shout Out by Najam Sethi to Cafe Pyala on the 2nd of February 2011 episode of Aapas Ki Baat for excellent research and reporting.

Anonymous said...

sethi is just of usa and ppp and does a nice work defending his paymasters

Anonymous said...

Does any one remember that how we "treated" the Afghan Ambassador to Pakistan ?

what you have to say about the immunity enjoyed by Mullah Zaeef as an ambassador in Pakistan? are you willing to go to same extents to defend Mullah Zaeef like you are dying to 'shower your blessings' on the low life american undercover agent who murdered two Pakistanis in broad daylight in front of hundreds, was using a fake identity, carrying illegal weapons



"It was eleven o’clock at night and I was getting ready to go to bed when the door to my cell suddenly opened. A man (also with a shaved head) entered; he was polite and we exchanged greetings. He asked me whether I was aware of what was going to happen to me. When I said that I knew nothing, he said that I was being transferred, and that it would happen soon. So soon, in fact, that he recommended that I should prepare straight away by taking ablutions and by using the toilet. Without asking for any further details, I got up and took my ablutions.

Barely five minutes had passed when other men arrived with handcuffs and a piece of black cloth. They shackled my hands and the cloth was tied around my head covering my eyes. This was the first time in my life that I had been treated in this way. They searched my belongings and took the holy Qur’an, a digital recorder and some money I still had with me. As they led me out of the building, they kicked and pushed me into a car. None of them had said a word so far. We drove for almost an hour before they stopped the car. I could hear the sounds of the rotating blades of a helicopter nearby. I guessed that we were at an airport where I would be handed over to the Americans. Someone grabbed me and pulled an expensive watch that I was wearing from my wrist as the car drove closer to the helicopters. The car stopped again, but this time two people grabbed me on each side and took me out of the car. As they brought me towards the helicopter, one of the guards whispered into my ear. Khuda hafiz. Farewell. But the way he said it, it sounded like I was going on a fantastic journey.

Even before I reached the helicopter, I was suddenly attacked from all sides. People kicked me, shouted at me, and my clothes were cut with knives. They ripped the black cloth from my face and for the first time I could see where I was. Pakistani and American soldiers stood around me. Behind these soldiers, I could see military vehicles in the distance, one of which had a general’s number plate."


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27057.htm

AHK said...

This is from today's Dawn:

"A diplomatic passport stamped with an `official visa` for two years does not qualify Davis to be a diplomat, an international law expert said. The official visa indicates that he is on some official business, which by no means entitles him to the privileges and immunities enjoyed by a diplomat assigned to that country. “He may be a builder, auditor or anything else, but not a diplomat,” the FO official noted.

Maybe Cafe Pyala should follow their own advice: "A little knowledge, foolhardy assertions and idiotic impulses to impute motives are all dangerous things."

And i did not make any assertions that you were ACTUALLY bending over backwards, because no one can know that for sure except you. I said it APPEARS, & i stand by my observation that it certainly does APPEAR.

I didn't try imparting any knowledge in my comment, i did not assert anything, & i don't think i displayed any idiotic impulse. And i definitely don't think my comment was dangerous.

Anonymous said...

anon@ 11:57 -- What happened to Zaeef was appalling and criminal, and has been condemned as such by those of us who oppose illegal acts regardless of which side commits them. Raymond Davies also seems to have committed a grievous crime. But the stupidity of your kneejerk criticism of CP is typical, you just refuse to see what argument is being made here. CP is *not* defending Davies or whatever his name is, the blog is pointing out the inconsistency of argument by our shrill media. You people are so unused to arguing and debating issues on the merits of facts as opposed to hysterical emotional pleas to mostly misguided ideas of nationalism and religious bigotry that you can't even comprehend that someone else might be simply pointing this out to you.

Sakib Ahmad said...

بک رہا ہوں جنوں میں کیا کیا کچھ
کچھ نہ سمجھے خدا کرے کوئی

After some minutes here I left in despair, only to find enlightenment elsewhere. Your confused readers may find this link helpful:

http://aq-lounge.blogspot.com/2011/02/tough-times-for-americas-friends-in.html

Anonymous said...

Cat's finally out of the bag !

Source: DAWN (link copied at bottom)

ISLAMABAD: The United States government, in a diplomatic dispatch, to the government of Pakistan admitted that not all administrative and technical staffers of embassies and consulates in Pakistan were given diplomatic status, DawnNews reported.

On the other hand, sources in the Pakistan government said that Raymond Davis’ diplomatic status was dubious.

They further said that the Foreign Office had not issued the ‘diplomatic card’ to Davis.

The dispatch further stated that although not all embassy and consulate staffers in Pakistan have the diplomatic status, it cannot be concluded that this annuls the diplomatic immunities under the Vienna Convention of Diplomatic Relations.

The US government further demanded Pakistan to clarify the situation and to not leave the resolution of the issue on the courts.

The US government emphasised that if Raymond Davis’ diplomatic status cannot be established then the issue should be resolved bilaterally. — DawnNews

http://www.dawn.com/2011/02/04/govt-says-raymond-davis%E2%80%99-diplomatic-status-dubious.html

Anonymous said...

@Sakib, it is a perfect ISI site, love it for real.

Anonymous said...

jeez. if you find 'enlightenment' from ahmed qureshi, u could probably find nirvana staring into a toilet bowl.

rishigajria said...

Dr. Aafia Siddiqui's mother was on Hamid's Mir's Capital Talk on the 3rd of February. She insisted that her daughter is a Pakistani citizen and not an American citizen. She has the passport to prove it and would sue anyone who says otherwise. She also mentioned Najam Sethi as one of those spreading misinformation regarding her daughter's citizenship. Would you know anything about this?

کاشف نصیر said...

Najam Saithi is a idiot man

Anonymous said...

why did Pakistan launch military operation against Iraqi embassy ? didn't they have 'diplomatic immunity'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_discovery_in_Iraqi_Embassy_%28Pakistan%29

and diplomatic immunity is for diplomats not for blackwater/xe agents

even the identity of the person is fake how can he even claim immunity on base of forged documents?

Taliban said...

@XYZ or ABC ...anonymous Roshan Khayal :P

I really don't answer such BRAVE people who do not share there names(obviously due to bravery) but ...well lets party :)

You have quoted several examples to strengthen your point of granting the immunity to SIR Raymond [thats what you guys are calling him rite :)]
(if not well then you need to learn about how to write a story with neutral view :)

But hey there are other examples too :)....let me quote them...only for you

Case:
The Romanian chargé d'affaires in Singapore, Silviu Ionescu, was allegedly behind a drunk-driving hit-and-run accident in December 2009 that resulted in the death of a 30 year old man and seriously injured two others. He left Singapore for Romania three days after the accident. The Romanian foreign ministry suspended Ionescu from his post. A coroner's inquiry in Singapore, which included testimony by the Romanian embassy driver, concluded with the coroner holding Ionescu solely responsible for the accident. An Interpol Red Notice was subsequently issued for his arrest and possible extradition notwithstanding the fact that Romania had not waived his diplomatic immunity and had commenced criminal proceedings against him in Romania. The Singapore government argued that by reason of Article 39(2) of the Vienna Convention, Ionescu was no longer protected by diplomatic immunity.
http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20100415-210575.html

Here are some points in this story:
1. Since the person in question was using embassy vehicle for his PRIVATE purpose, as per Romanian government, that person CAN NOT ENJOY DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY. In case of your raymond..sorry i meant...SIR RAYMOND...the vehicle was not even registered by Embassy so its a private matter.
2. since the diplomat fled to his country, Singapore asks for him but HE CAN NOT return to Singapore because there is no Extradition Treaty (ET) between Singapore and Romania. Otherwise romania would have to hand over his diplomat to Singapore. There is no IMMUNITY in this case.

In your example of GEORGIA,,,,the diplomat did served three years in prison PLUS he completed his remaining sentence in Georgia. he was SENT BACK TO GEROGIA BECAUSE The government of Georgia requested the transfer of prisoner custody under Council of Europe Convention on the Transfer of Sentenced Persons Treaty, to which both countries are signatories. NOT BECAUSE OF IMMUNITY.
you BOLDED the words SENT BACK TO GEROGIA which clearly shows your intention :)


Now some other things are also becoming more transparent like the people killed were Intelligence agents and not DACOIT's as per your ROSHAN KHAYAL version. Plus the embassy is not handing over the CAR or person who came to rescue and killed a person....saving a person responsible for death....is itself a heinous crime..even from human point of view...which you roshan khayuals brags a lot. Immunity or not.. name the person atleast.

WHY PAKIS ARE MAKING SCENE OF IT WHEN THOUSAND OF PEOPLE KILLED BY MUSLIMS or TALIBANS
If your father or a relative slaps you... you may tolerate it...how bout an unknown person come to you and slaps you...will u remain quite?


I AM NOT ADVOCATING...
I am just trying to show you your real face...you too Sir is an EXTREMIST ROSHAN KHAYAL
you are no better than those EXTREMISTS & EMOTIONAL People..jumping to conclusion by just hearing or reading something...you guys are worse than them..infact..as you are molding the story as per your POINT OF VIEW

PS: SUICIDE BOMBERS ARE MAY BE MUSLIMS BUT NOT A SINGLE SANE PERSON SUPPORTS THERE ACT. TERMING THE WHOLE MUSLIM WORLD EXTREMIST CAUSE OF SOME INDIVIDUALS ACTION, IS SIMILAR OF TERMING ALL THE POPES RAPIST AND GAY..AS THERE ARE SOME CASES AGAINST SOME POPES.

PSS: USING JARGONS OR IDIOMS WONT MAKE YOU LOOK SMART...PLEASE USE SIMPLE LANGUAGE & WORDS :)

Amna said...

http://teeth.com.pk/blog/2011/02/07/diplomatic-immunity-and-the-raymond-davis-case

This is an interesting write up on Raymond Davis case.

Taliban said...

@XYZ or ABC ...anonymous Roshan Khayal :P

I really don't answer such BRAVE people who do not share there names(obviously due to bravery) but ...well lets party :)

You have quoted several examples to strengthen your point of granting the immunity to SIR Raymond [thats what you guys are calling him rite :)]
(if not well then you need to learn about how to write a story with neutral view :)

But hey there are other examples too :)....let me quote them...only for you

Case:
The Romanian chargé d'affaires in Singapore, Silviu Ionescu, was allegedly behind a drunk-driving hit-and-run accident in December 2009 that resulted in the death of a 30 year old man and seriously injured two others. He left Singapore for Romania three days after the accident. The Romanian foreign ministry suspended Ionescu from his post. A coroner's inquiry in Singapore, which included testimony by the Romanian embassy driver, concluded with the coroner holding Ionescu solely responsible for the accident. An Interpol Red Notice was subsequently issued for his arrest and possible extradition notwithstanding the fact that Romania had not waived his diplomatic immunity and had commenced criminal proceedings against him in Romania. The Singapore government argued that by reason of Article 39(2) of the Vienna Convention, Ionescu was no longer protected by diplomatic immunity.
http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20100415-210575.html

Here are some points in this story:
1. Since the person in question was using embassy vehicle for his PRIVATE purpose, as per Romanian government, that person CAN NOT ENJOY DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY. In case of your raymond..sorry i meant...SIR RAYMOND...the vehicle was not even registered by Embassy so its a private matter.
2. since the diplomat fled to his country, Singapore asks for him but HE CAN NOT return to Singapore because there is no Extradition Treaty (ET) between Singapore and Romania. Otherwise romania would have to hand over his diplomat to Singapore. There is no IMMUNITY in this case.

In your example of GEORGIA,,,,the diplomat did served three years in prison PLUS he completed his remaining sentence in Georgia. he was SENT BACK TO GEROGIA BECAUSE The government of Georgia requested the transfer of prisoner custody under Council of Europe Convention on the Transfer of Sentenced Persons Treaty, to which both countries are signatories. NOT BECAUSE OF IMMUNITY.
you BOLDED the words SENT BACK TO GEROGIA which clearly shows your intention :)


There are lot of things which still needs to be answered... like the people killed were Intelligence agents or DACOIT's as per your ROSHAN KHAYAL version. Plus the embassy is not handing over the CAR or person who came to rescue and killed a person....saving a person responsible for death....is itself a heinous crime..even from human point of view...which you roshan khayuals brags a lot. Immunity or not.. name the person atleast.

WHY PAKIS ARE MAKING SCENE OF IT WHEN THOUSAND OF PEOPLE KILLED BY MUSLIMS or TALIBANS
If your father or a relative slaps you... you may tolerate it...how bout an unknown person come to you and slaps you...will u remain quite?


I AM NOT ADVOCATING...
I am just trying to show you your real face...you too Sir is an EXTREMIST ROSHAN KHAYAL
you are no better than those EXTREMISTS & EMOTIONAL People..jumping to conclusion by just hearing or reading something...you guys are worse than them..infact..as you are molding the story as per your POINT OF VIEW

PS: SUICIDE BOMBERS ARE MAY BE MUSLIMS BUT NOT A SINGLE SANE PERSON SUPPORTS THERE ACT. TERMING THE WHOLE MUSLIM WORLD EXTREMIST CAUSE OF SOME INDIVIDUALS ACTION, IS SIMILAR OF TERMING ALL THE POPES RAPIST AND GAY..AS THERE ARE SOME CASES AGAINST SOME POPES.

PSS: USING JARGONS OR IDIOMS WONT MAKE YOU LOOK SMART...PLEASE USE SIMPLE LANGUAGE & WORDS :)

Anonymous said...

Such a shameful post ... u have no regard for the poor fellows killed ... no regard for the lady who committed suicide ... u want immunity for the killer ... shame on u

Anonymous said...

I think we should give the writer some credit. He has done his research and the kind of research that would give Hussain Haqqani some relief for next week or so.

Though I do believe part two should be in the pipeline telling us why Tribune is calling the guys intelligence assets, and why this guy has multiple identities and is on the attendance of all three council generals. Also, was he really declared persona non grata, as some section of the media declares.

In the end, who really cares about 3 pakis on the road? People are being killed in northern areas, fata, and so on.For decade now. We are just excited to know if this James bond with a licences to kill will really get out and how.

Sakib Ahmad said...

Raymond Davis is just a symptom of a deep seated disease. The truth is that there are hunderds of Raymond Davises in Pakistan. Dealing only with the symptoms and leaving the disease untreated would be the height of folly.

Most people posting here must be well aware that it is traitors like Zardari, his Interior Minister Malik and their henchmen, who freely issue visas on demand to the Americans. CP has a reputation for being an American stooge. You can easily shed that image by putting up a united front with patriotic journalists and lawyers, and commencing legal proceedings for treason against Zardari & Co.

It is essential not to release Davis and to punish him for the murders. The publicity that this will generate will humiliate the USA and it could force it to re-consider its insane, inhuman policies vis a vis Pakistan.

Here is an excellent article by Saleem Safi - a "must read":

http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/feb2011-daily/08-02-2011/col3.htm

Anonymous said...

http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/feb2011-daily/09-02-2011/col3.htm

http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/feb2011-daily/09-02-2011/u62084.htm

Which version is correct?

stuka said...

The Pakistani hypocrisy vis a vis the Raymond Davis case and the Arshad Cheema case is revealing. The former killed two people in apparent self defence. The latter, Arshad Cheema, was posted at the Pakistani Embassy in Kathmandu. Indian intelligence had accused him of materially conspiring and helping with the case of hijacking the Indian Airlines flight from KTM to DEL. Cheema denied this, obviously, but stayed on his role. He was later arrested red-handed with fake Indian currency and RDX. He claimed diplomatic immunity and went back to Pakistan.

Verily, Pakistani attitude is:

HAMARA SEX ISHQ

TUMHARA SEX CHUDAI!

Sakib Ahmad said...

CP,

"Taliban" has been repeatedly trying to post his comments which criticise you quite harshly. If you keep deleting such critical comments, you will only end up harming your unflattering image further.

The way heavily bribed hacks in the English press have been distorting the facts of this case is shameful in the extreme. This disgraceful conduct supports the Americans' claims that Pakistanis will sell their own mothers for money.

Najam Sethi's distortions in Urdu show that the American influence has now spread to the Urdu press as well.

anoop said...

Stellar work. But, what do you think, based on the information you get from the Media, is his status? Is he on full diplomatic immunity or partial(if there is one such)? There is an article in Express Tribune regarding this.


http://tribune.com.pk/story/117011/the-raymond-davis-case-options-for-the-government/

anoop said...

http://tribune.com.pk/story/115417/the-curious-case-of-raymond-davis/

Sorry, this is the one. You must have read it way back, but thought I should post it.

Abysmal said...

I apologize ..

http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff02082011.html

NarayaN said...

The point you missed ALL ALONG. Were it for any sane & responsible society (like Canada, or Russia), such things were possible. We're looking at a society where persons acquitted of Blasphemy are killed outside the court - exactly on the day of the judgement. We're looking at a society that praises a murderer of a governor - because the murderer thought the governor was involved in blasphemy.
.
Islam clearly indicates that it is the ONE & the ONLY TRUE Religion & that Rasool-il-Allah SAWS is the Last Prophet. So, what about the Ahmeddiyas who believe in later prophet? What about the Kufar Hindus (like me)?
.
When you Muslims say the kalima - you're automatically stating that you Muslims are the only people that Allah SWT (the ONE GOD that you believe in) will bless - and us Kufars will be punished with hell-fire for eternity 'SIMPLY BECAUSE WE DON'T BELIEVE IN YOUR FANTASY - and have our own senseless fantasy religion of Hindu-ism'.
.
So, then, is it not obvious that for the VAST MAJORITY of the PAKISTANI PEOPLE OF TODAY, it's okay for their own citizens to kill kufars & be saved by diplomatic immunity - but no kufar dog can even sniff a TRUE MUSLIM and get away with it?
.
Your entire write-up is so childish, naive & out-of-touch with the reality of the vast, poor, un-educated & brain-washed MUSLIM majority people of the Islamice Republic of Pakistan.
.
My 2 cents.
.
MN

NarayaN said...

One more Google for "al-Ghazali reason leads to despair" - and you'll know why / how Islam & Islamic societies can NEVER be "permanently" set-up towards progress & rationale / rational thinking.

Taliban said...

hahahaha

LIBERALS :P

@SAKIB
Thanks bro for noting my efforts

So i tried several times to post my point of view as some ROSHAN KHAYAL was insisting that we should DISCUSS rather than enforce...which is quite obvious by his/her (whatever that thing is) comments and tone ...after all "that thing" is a ROSHAN KHAYAL :P . But it seems that this Anonymous ..oh sorry..I meant BRAVE ..roshan khayal liberals do not have enough courage to let me post that comment..

I guess it was too convincing for other ROSHAN KHAYALS EXTREMIST to think rationally which definitely cafe pyala do not wants :)


well no issue :)

i really do not want to indulge in such things...as i have far more better things to do on internet rather than just CRITISIZING every other media person out there who is in better position than me :P....or got some more exposure :P...

but you have forced me to start a blog specifically to answer your postings....WITH OPEN DISCUSSION ...NO DELETION & NO EDITING
:P

WAIT & WATCH FOR IT :)

Sakib Ahmad said...

@Taliban

It will be interesting to read your blog. In the meantime you are welcome to leave your comments at my blog.