Tuesday, June 1, 2010

Fountainhead

Just in case you were in any doubt about the wellsprings of anti-Ahmadi hate that fueled last Friday's terrorist attacks, here are a couple of pieces of evidence posted by people on Facebook and Twitpic.

This one is of a banner from Mall Road outside the Lahore High Court and reads "Yahoodi Eesai Mirzai Islam Ke Dushman Hain" (Jews, Christians, Ahmadis Are Enemies of Islam).

(Source: Isa Daudpota / TwitPic)


And this following one is of a billboard, also in Lahore, sponsored by the Government of the Punjab for the Aalmi Majlis Tahaffuz-e-Khatm-e-Nabuwat (World Conference for the Protection of the Finality of the Prophethood). I believe this is from 2009. It carries a quote (bottom right) that reads "Mirzaion Se Dosti Huzoor Sallallaho Alehe Wasallam Se Baghawat Hai" (Friendship with Ahmadis is Rebellion Against the Prophet Peace Be Upon Him).


(Source: Khuda Bux Abro / Facebook)

And officials still have the temerity to talk about international conspiracies to defame Islam and Pakistan.

46 comments:

Magnum said...

Sick!
This nation does not deserve any simpathy whatsoever. Mind you, just watch them jump up and down about 'hijab ban' Afia Siddique, Mosque ban, blah, blah.
We make the most noise about how awful Muslims are treated in the West. What the fuck about this?
And was there no one brave and human enough to actually take this sick banner down??

Raamis said...

Perhaps all those people who are organising pathetic little rallies outside the press club would do well to realise that the problem is not just the government. The problem is the absolutely moronic Pakistanis themselves... of course, the real problem lies in the lack of education in this country... but then what do you expect when all that the rich, upper-crust minorities can do is update their facebook statuses in protest, or organise rallies which are followed by GTs instead of making an attempt to educate the masses

TLW said...

instead of making an attempt to educate the masses

Alright genius, how do YOU plan on infiltrating our countries textbook boards and changing the syllabus?

Anonymous said...

heh. TLW makes an interesting point raamis. when jamaat was raising a ruckus over the proposed curriculum changes during musharraf's period, the aga khan foundation took the brunt of the criticism for its perceived role in formulating the new standards. i distinctly remember listening to a speech by qazi hussain ahmed to a crowd of frothy-mouthed bearded ones in rawalpindi, in which he sneered "these aga khanis should be careful or their fate will be the same as that of qadianis!"

so yes genius, in these times of state-abetted massacres, do provide some concrete suggestions on how you'd go about educating the masses.

TLW said...

Correction @ Raamis

countries=country's

We only have one country. I believe it needs some fixing.

organising

Anybody else organising on behalf of not discriminating against the Ahmedi's?

pathetic little

That describes the state of democracy and progressivism in this country after thirty plus years of direct military suppression against democratic thought.

rallies outside the press club

Maybe XYZ can comment on this, but the Karachi Press Club seems to be turning into Karachi/Pakistan's version of the Hyde Park corner. The freedom of expression there seems to be a deeply cherished and hard won tradition. Remember folks, you heard the Karachi Press Club/Hyde Park analogy first from TLW ;-)

instead of making an attempt to educate the masses

As per a Paki satirist, the masses intelligently prefer to watch a Shahrukh Khan film rather than studiously spend time perusing their Pakistan Studies textbooks upon the subject of Mohammad Bin Qasim's greatness.

Masses

"Masses" is a cliched phrase. You have shown with your thoughts and your choice of words that you are a cliched person.

And I come back to your original snark with this Raamis:

How do YOU plan on infiltrating our country's textbook boards and changing the syllabus?

In Deepest Contempt to Raavis, Whilst Driving from Work-to-the-Press-Club-to-go-Home-And-Study

TLW

Raamis said...

@TLW: 'countries' was your typo not mine... and the name is Raamis, not Raavis. Perhaps you shouldn't comment on blogs while you drive?

Irfan said...

LOL. TLW just got owned...

Tilsim said...

My suggestion would be to put up banners snext to these banners that say that Taliban, Mullah, LEJ, LET, Sipah e Mohammed, Religious parties Islam kay dushman hain (Islam's enemies). Let's see if the authorities ignore them and which ones stay up.

Ahsan said...

Wow. The TLW-Raamis thing was more entertaining than those banners. Well played guys.

efff said...

@ Tilsim LOL, it is some suggestion, I like it but as earlier said who would DARE to do such a thing...why don't you give it a shot, put up a banner(take a picture & post it here) and then run for your life

Anonymous said...

{Yahoodi Eesai Mirzai Islam Ke Dushman Hain" (Jews, Christians, Ahmedis Are Enemies of Islam).}

What?! No mention of the evil Hindoos? Tsk, tsk.

Ash (tongue firmly in cheek)

Yours friend said...

i don't find anything strange written on the banner. if it means that "Jews, Christians, Ahmedis Are Enemies of Islam", then all Muslims must be agreed on it, because Allah told Muslims that "non-Muslims can never be your friends".

nayyares said...

@"Yours friend", you must be "Liaqut Baloch" ?

Anonymous said...

Any of you ready to come out to the streets ad vice your support are are u tooooo scared to your fellow contryment

Ya Allah! save me form your followers

LMR said...

Really? what is wrong with that
do you really think that zionists, necons and their buddy's aka qadianis are some sort of friends of Pakistan ?

Yours Friend has rightly pointed out above what the Quran says

"[O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.] (Al-Ma’dah 5: 51) "

Janjua said...

So wts so special abt it ?These are "FACTS " ! but quoting these at this time is again one of ur attmpts 2 make evry1 who believes in muhammad (pbuh) as last propht ,to be on the side of the attckrs !!

Raamis said...

@LMR and Janjua: Your ignorance is appalling. And it is scary to think that people like you two actually exist.
@at the rest of you guys: See what I mean about education? Get these guys at a rally and they will blow up anyone they can!!!

LMR said...

@Ram mis

What ignorance?
I being a Muslim, I believe in what Quran Says
and It does say that Jews/Christains are no friend of us
If you think that believing in Quran is ignorance than be my guest

LMR said...

@Ram
Education ?
you mean brainwashing ? so that we also become a liberal fascist like you ?

Magnum said...

@nayyares
LOL!! Good one.

Magnum said...

LMR, does by any chance LMR stand for Lashkar-e-Mahan-Randi?

Sorry for the crude language, but since us liberals refuse to use suicide bombs (against hate-filled idiots), we have no choice but to use such language against holy pimps like you.

A thousand apologies. Cunt.

Cheers.

LMR said...

Magnum
bombs? have you forgot Hiroshima Nagasaki ? the daisy cutters ? the drones? the napalms ? the patriots ?

or do you think that these are a more humane way to kill, hence more acceptable ?

and again, Muslims have to accept what Quran says, that is not optional but mandatory. If the Quran Says that jews/Christians are not our friends than we have to accept that
sorry, there is no way around that

and if you really think that they are our friends than quote some examples, gives so facts, show us that how and why are we indebted from the 'good and friendly' gestures of jews/Christians towards Muslims?

and thanks, I liked your signature, you really are a Cunt

Raamis said...

You seem to forget that the Quran has been translated; and that certain things aren't meant to be taken literally. Also, nowhere does the Quran state that you should kill off people who aren't your friends. Also, I don't think it is quite right to generalise and appraise people based on their colour or religion. People are people. Some are good, some are bad. And some are just cunts.

Raamis said...

Also, would like to point out the obvious LMR: Magnum's "signature" was Cheers,not Cunt. That was meant for you. And I couldn't agree more. Sorry for stating the obvious, but not sure about the mental faculties of psycho-bomber-wannabes.

Anonymous said...

raamis, umm... i can't help but lol. this is your education of the masses? :))

@lmr et al... i'm curious. how do you define "the" jews and christians? do you mean every single person of jewish or christian origin is your enemy? or just in general referring to western countries? and where do you place someone like, say, rachel courie, a christian who died trying to shield a palestinian muslim home from being demolished by an israeli bulldozer? what would the quran say about her?

Anonymous said...

I know who the people behind Pyala are. And their social climbing days are over because everybody by now knows who they are. They don't realise that people are watching each and every move they are making, espcially the fact that they became staffers of a major English daily after signing a contract that they will work for that paper alone. But now they have a website which is a violation of their contract. Have they taken permission for launching a website which is aimed at advancing their ambitions?

Anonymous said...

Please tell us who they are. NOW NOW NOW

Anonymous said...

ahahahahahahhahahhahahhaah :)

for an anonymous blog to be described as "launching a website... aimed at advancing their ambitions" sounds a bit like the clueless islamist lawyers and pta officials who think blocking parts of the internet serves some grand cause of protecting islam. morons are always so way off the mark...

Anonymous said...

On this blog post comments section one of the basic reasons for the failure of Pakistan are clearly exposed (no i am not referring to the out-of-context Quran preaching) Lack of gut among the "Enlightened Moderates".

Thats the difference between the moderates and the extremists in Pakistan - the former will sit around the fringes and just yap and yap and yap, while the extremists will just get on with it and do the business. The arm chair fundos, these blog writers are just doing that - passing the blame around and talking but not having the courage to get out and do something. Not to say that talking should not be done and this forum is a place to express opinions - but, having said that, that is all that we are doing - just talk. XYZ, MSS all of you, honestly tell me, would you go out and protest in a rally? or is it all just to beneath you to stand next to your maid-servant and chant slogans for equality.

The fact is that our society is bigoted. The elite and the educated do not want to educate the poor. Not everything is the government's fault. The government did not attack those people. We are the ones who have made a system or allowed it atleast to become tyrannical and basically one to be accessed by the rich. we have allowed corruption to seep into every pore. we have allowed these extremists to become monsters, threaten our children all because we were too scared to lose our shiny cars. thats all we do, a bunch of cowards hiding behind the veil of modernity. None of you are willing to stand up for your rights and just bloody moan - we all are effing cunts who moan when those with balls shove their dicks into us.

truly, it is us who should be wearing the bangles.

I have come now to believe that the educated are more to blame for the problems than normal people. The rich do not pay the taxes, manipulate hierarchy, and are the cowards that hide behind mansions, and collaborate with those in power to get their means regardless of the masses.

Just tell me one damn thing - where were the mighty liberals when this amendment was made in the first place?? oh yeah, you cunts were being fucked - dp style!!

Magum said...

At least liberals have names. Drawing room bombers and hairy cunts like to remain 'Anonymous.' Why? Because they are the biggest cowards. God's sissy soldiers flexing their limp muscles. They only seem to get an errection when they see Muslims slaughtering Muslims, or when muslims slaughter minorities.

gibran said...

Hmm so pseudo aliases are more real??

IMDelirious said...

What is wrong with everyone here? There is one huge issue that supercedes everything being discussed here. Killing is not right. Murders are wrong. WRONG!

Muslim, non muslim, jew, christian, Ahmedi, shia, sunni, fundo, liberal, Israeli, Palestinian, politician, journalist, activist, woman, wife, husband, mom in law, blogger, cafe pyalaite, no matter how big a pain he or she may be, just does not deserve to be killed. No one can assume the right to kill anybody for ANY reason.

I wish all parties, groups in Problemistan can learn to dissent with dignity some day.

And Ramis, education is one of the cures. We try to simplify the issues by proposing one step plans but there truly is no panacea for all social ills. To grow, you need multi sector development.

Sadia said...

The hate-speech against Ahmediya community is being going on for decades. As a nation we are so prone to such stuff that no one bothered to object against these banners . A few week back when I was commuting in public van a tape was being played which initially started off with the preaching of Islam but later turned into a venomous hate speech against minority communities in Pakistan. I noted visible signs of discomfort on the faces of fellow passenger and at this point I interjected and asked the driver to shut the tape. This goes to demonstrate that even as citizens we tolerate hate speech which makes us guilty too

Omar said...

It is time we stopped fudging the broader issue. Indeed the Quran, in the verse quoted by LMR, explicitly states that believers should not take Jews and Christians as friends. We can hem and haw all about translation, context etc. but that does not change the written verse in the Quran.

The question is, do you accept this and other such instructions. Before I go on, let me state that I don't.

Let me explain why. The purpose of any religion is to raise the standard of human conduct, not to degrade it. The values that religion imparts are higher than the values of "insaaniyat". It is a "human" value that all humans are created equal; man or woman, yellow black brown or white, "believer" or "infidel". As a Muslim, my religion implores me to a standard of conduct higher than that, to the point where the rights of my fellow men over me supersede even the right of Allah. "Haqooq ul Ibad" are not exclusive to Muslims, they are innate to being a human, irrespective of any other factor.

The fact that the likes of LMR, who's zeal for Quran apparently knows no bounds, overlook is that it was a random event that led to his/her zealous beliefs. The Jew who LMR cannot be friends with did not chose to be born as one, just as much as LMR did not chose to be born a Muslim. Before we become too dogged in our beliefs, let’s bear in mind that we could just as well have been on the other side of that belief.

In the narrow context of the verse quoted by LMR, is Quran wrong? On one hand you have the values of equality and on the other the verse in essence forbidding treating people from other religions as equal. The least we can say is that there is an inconsistency within the Quran on this. Without straying too far off topic, I'd like to point out that there are several such inconsistencies.

I am not a scholar, religious or otherwise, by any stretch of imagination. But my conviction is that the higher moral purpose espoused in Quran (equality of all, kindness to others, self sacrifice, modesty, progress) provides the lens through which one judges everything else in the Quran. In other words, the basic beliefs determine how one applies the detailed instructions and tests their validity. I am conscious that this creates a logic loop, a circular reference, as you get the basic beliefs from the same source as well, nor all basic beliefs are bullet pointed on page 1.

But the alternative is rather stark. Again in the confined context of this verse taken to its logical end, this implies a qadir and khaliq god who decides who will be born a Muslim, who a Jew, who a Christian, and let’s not forget Hindu, Buddhist, Parsi et al. Then he condemns them to battle each other. That's a rather mean character, a crafty, cruel god who's playing games with his creatures, perhaps for his amusement. If you believe this, well, there is truly no hope. But that is certainly not Allah of the Quran, the one who is above all, the kindest, the most wise.

If you've managed to get so far and buy the overall argument, its legit to ask, so what now? How do we resolve the present issues now that we've dealt with all the motherhood and apple pie stuff. There is much in our accumulated heritage that is deplorable. That includes large elements of our religion, per se and in the way it is practiced. I wish I had the answer to how one changes the basic values and beliefs of a whole country. Where Allah's prophet has evidently not been successful, mere "liberal fascists" as people like me are called stand little chance. But a good place to start is to move beyond obfuscations and recognise the evils that we have allowed to creep into our collectives belief system. The religion that was intended to be the force for good in society has become our biggest scourge. Let’s give Islam a rest. Not the mantle of momin yet for us, for now we need to aspire to be merely human.

Liberal Aftab said...

Brilliant post, Omar.
Simply put, people like LMR are reading the Quran out of context.
They seem to be projecting certain 7th Century situations on 21st Century mindset. This can produce some really warped people.

LMR said...

Omar,
The matter isn't that twisted or complex
you cannot relate concept of equality,justice,fair dealing to that of friendship

Quran simply says that don't take them as your Friends that is like the advice of a parent to his kid to stop mingling with the bad kid on the block



"On one hand you have the values of equality and on the other the verse in essence forbidding treating people from other religions as equal."

pardon me, where does the Quran actually says that Muslims and non-Muslims are equal ?

nayyares said...

@LMR, Which Islam version's Brand Ambassador are you?

you said, "where does the Quran actually says that Muslims and non-Muslims are equal ?"

I guess even Americans were unable to find answer for your question in both Quran & Bible, so they started giving exclusive treatment to Muslims and suddenly your version of Mullanas went out on street crying for human rights & equality!

for example, Qazi & company, is asking equal rights for Aafia (Qoom ki beti) from USA Court/Govt. while in Quran they are not suppose to be treated same!

happy ending!

LMR said...

nayyers
a moron like you is a rare occurrence

do you realize that if anyone asked something from USA than it was ONLY because their law/constitution says that there are equal rights for everyone, so people merely demanded that they, the Americans, follow their own laws
if they want make exclusive laws for Muslims than they are more than welcome to do that
at-least that will expose their true standing before morons like you
Saudia Arabia does not treat Muslims and non-Muslims alike but than again, Saudia does not claim to be democracy where everyone has equal rights!

and in all this, you still forgot to answer that where does Quran say that Muslims and non-Muslims are equal ?

Omar said...

LMR

It is indeed straight forward.

Notions of fairness and equality are integral to social conduct, including who one takes as friends.

I am not aware of any verse in Quran that states explicitly that Muslims and non-Muslims are equal nor any that explicitly states that those who call themselves Muslims are superior to others.

But consider that even in today's world of hi-speed internet access and boundless communication, the vast majority of people adopt the faith that they are born into. That’s what happened to me, and, I would venture a guess, to you as well. If one were to believe that the mere act of being born as non-Muslims makes all of them any lesser beings, by definition one must believe that Allah is unfair. That comes in conflict with the rather basic tenet of Adl.

On the other hand, if one holds the basic belief that Allah is fair and just, one must then hold the view that muslim and non-muslim are equal.

nayyares said...

@LMR, to be honest i rarely jump into endless religious debates... i am sure we would never end up with certain conclusion but for sake of discussion let me give you a ride!

you said, "do you realize that if anyone asked something from USA than it was ONLY because their law/constitution says that there are equal rights for everyone"

so you at least agreed that Americans are better human, they have declared equality in their law/constitution! while your version of Mullas are ready to declare non-believers unequal and accept publicly hatred banners, mentioning them your enemies!

you said "Saudia Arabia does not treat Muslims and non-Muslims alike but than again, Saudia does not claim to be democracy where everyone has equal rights"

Saudi Arabia is heaven for nut heads as you, i mean, they do sin and do it publicly while you are adding it to their good quality! honestly speaking Arab even d'nt give a shit to humanity and equal rights, you can experience it, if you ever get chance to visit and see their behavior to your fellow muslim brothers from third world, they even treat them as animals!

with respect holding my balls, i will ask my holy cow, if this versus is missing, then it is a big miss!

LMR said...

@Omar
Your reasoning is flawed
by the same logic you can argue that why someone is born blind or why someone had to die at a young age with a fatal disease

@nayyer
Do you really think that Muslims and non-Muslims are equal ?
than why do you think that Allah Sent us HIS last Messenger with the message of Islam
do you think that is was just for the fun of it?
why the religion of Islam and the Quran has been revealed by Allah after all it does not make any difference and at the end of the day Muslims and non-Muslims are equal before the eyes of the God ?

and dear, it isn't you who decides what is a 'better human' that has to be decided by Allah SWT

JDèé said...

LMR: " it isn't you who decides what is a 'better human' that has to be decided by Allah SWT"

Exactly! Nailed it here, brother.

Whether He wants to put Jews in hell and Muslims in heaven is his prerogative, not yours.

So, can you leave this judgement to Allah? Can you just treat other people as people only and leave it at that, please?

Tilsim said...

@LMR

If Muslims and non-Muslims are not equal, please do not complain about the West's treatment of Muslims (well, actually they treat Muslims better than we treat our minorities but you may believe otherwise).

The other thing that I will say is that the Prophet himself entered into a treaty with Jews in which they were given equal treatment. Please read the Mesaq-e Medina(available on the internet). May Allah guide you from your error. Ameen

1. ALL INCLUSIVE?

This is a document on behalf of Mohammad, the Prophet (PBUH), as between all Muslim from the Quraish and the Medianites and those who follow them and are thus attached to them and strive with them.

2. ONE NATION OF MUSLIMS AND JEWS

“They from one community (‘Ummatul Vahidah”) apart from other people.

3. PLURALISM AND FREEDOM OF RELIGION

“And the Jews of Banu “Auf form one community (“Ummatun”) along with the Muslims. Shall have their own religion and the Muslims shall have their own religion – their associates as well as themselves – except one who transgresses or commits a wrong. He shall be inviting trouble only for himself and his own people.

4. EQUAL RIGHTS

“And for the Jews of other (mixed) tribes (named in the document) the rights and obligations shall be the same as for the Jews of Bani Auf, except, one who transgresses or only for himself and his own people.

5. EQUAL RIGHTS

“And the associates of the Jews shall be considered at one with them (that is the tribes).

6. SINCERITY AND FRATERNITY

“And the Jews and the Muslim shall bear their own expenses. They shall help each other against one who fights with the people of this covenant. Among them there shall be goodwill and sincere counsel rather than foul play.

7. COMMON OBLIGATIONS

“And the Jews and the Muslim shall share expenses in the state of war.

8. LAWFULNESS

“And it will be unlawful for the people of this covenant to disturb the peace of Madinah.

9. COMMON DEFENCE

“And they shall help each other against one who poses a threat to Madinah.

10. SOCIAL JUSTICE

“And none shall do wrong to his ally and the aggrieved shall be entitled to all help”

Reply to Omar LMR said...

@ LMR aisay hawaii firing kernay say pehlay please try to understand the broader context in which Quranic verses have been revealed…you will just misguide others away from Islam out of your ignorance.
@ Omar there is no inconsistency in the Quranic stance; please bear with me as I explain why
The Quranic verse in question here is:
"O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide people who are unjust. (Quran 5:51)"
Quran is a complete book of guidance and while studying various issues it should be kept in mind that a particular issue may be discussed over several chapters or several verses in the same chapter. A complete understanding can only be achieved by understanding the whole issue as presented over all the verses and chapters and not by looking at only part of the Quran.
To understand the issue of befriending the Jews, Christians or people of any other faith, we have to study all the concerned verses from the Quran collectively.
Let us look at some other verses about this issue. The following two verses regulate relations with any people, regardless of faith:
"As for such [of the unbelievers] as do not fight against you on account of [your] faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave towards them with full equity: for, verily, God loves those who act equitably. (Quran 60:8)"

"God only forbids you to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you because of [your] faith, and drive you forth from your homelands, or aid [others] in driving you forth: and as for those [from among you] who turn towards them in friendship; it is they, they who are truly wrongdoers! (Quran 60:9)"
From the above verses, we learn that we are only discouraged from befriending those who fight Muslims because of their religion.
Now let's go back to the verse immediately after 5:51, to see if it sheds some further light on the issue.
"And yet you can not see how those in whose hearts there is disease vie with one another for their good will (the hostile Jews and Christians), saying [to themselves], "We do fear lest a change of fortune bring us disaster." But God may well bring about good fortune [for the believers] or any [other] event of His own devising, whereupon those [waverers] will be smitten with remorse for the thoughts which they had secretly harboured within themselves- (Quran 5:52)"
During the time of the Prophet when the Jews and Christians were in open conflict with the Muslims, there were some Muslims who were more concerned about maintaining there alliances with the Jews and Christians at the expense of the Muslim community. The above verse is referring to such situations where Muslims with doubts in their hearts will ally themselves with the enemy.
Omar you raise another point “Again in the confined context of this verse taken to its logical end, this implies a qadir and khaliq god who decides who will be born a Muslim, who a Jew, who a Christian, and let’s not forget Hindu, Buddhist, Parsi et al. Then he condemns them to battle each other.”
The Islamic concept is that everyone is born a Muslim it’s the parents and the society which turns them into Jews Christians etc.
The following verse from the Quran capsulates this issue:
"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other (not that you may despise (each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). (Quran 49:13)"
Source: article by Majid Arbil at Islamicity.com

Anonymous said...

I like the quotes from the Holy Quran and have profound regard and respect for it but these quotes just can't stop me thinking about the various doles that we get from the 'Christian pro-Zionist' USA. Remember the Carry Lugar Act and the alms that we got with it. A cool USD 7.5 bn. No one has so far objected to the money on the basis of the Quranic Quotes given in the comments.
So much so that we keep on pestering these infidels about delays in the disbursement of "khairaat".
The very devoutly religious Swatis also had no qualms of conscience when they accepted alms of USD 350 million from the infidel USA.

I just wonder how long are we going to continue with such hypocrsy.

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